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public apology

Posted by michaelg 7a NC Mts (My Page) on
Mon, Sep 9, 13 at 12:52

Campanula's thread about trouble on another board reminded me to do this. I need to apologize to strawberryhill for suggesting she was a fictional character being run by somebody trying to stir up conflict on the board. (We have had such characters in the past.) I now realize she is a real person with no bad intentions. So I'm very sorry.

Michael


Follow-Up Postings:

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I am sad that she finally left us. She really helped me with my fussy bloomers.


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There HAVE been such incidents, tho -- so, one can't really blamed for thinking so. That's what destroyed rec.gardens.roses.

Jeri


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Oh no, I hadn't realized she hadn't been on here!! I hope she sees this and comes back. I love reading about her experiments. While some haven't been relative to me some have and I am anxious to try them. She has really encouraged me with my own research on roses and even other plants. I feel she is a valuable asset to this forum!!

Grace e


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I didn't realize SH was gone. I must have missed a recent dustup. I was referring to my own comments of a month or two ago.
...........

Jeri and other old-timers, what was the name of the romantic billionaire who wanted advice on what roses to plant around his Olympic-sized pool overlooking the bay at Pacific Palisades? And there was another fictional character since him, female, but I don't recall any details.


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I miss straw's beautiful bouquets (I'm still jealous of those Evelyn blooms she manages to get in July when everything is cooking here). I enjoyed her experiments and purchased a couple of the fertilizers she recommended. Finally got myself some horse poo/compost from a friend, too. I think it was criticism of her scientific method in the last thread in which she posted that caused her to leave the forum. I do wish she'd return. Everyone that leaves diminishes us a little. I want to see us be free of petty constraints here on the forum. Diane


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Do we know that she's gone? Maybe she's just being quiet?


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Oh, my! I just searched and found the thread where Strawberry explained her feelings about being ridiculed. It made me want to be careful and read what I've written again before hitting SEND. I was thinking, have I? I don't think so. But what if I have? So, please overlook it if I've been sharp with anyone or used humor unwisely. My new motto is write once, read twice. You know, like the adage of measure twice, cut once. Lou


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She is on almost all the threads on the Organic Rose Growing Forum.


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I don't know if Michael G remembers this, but well over a decade ago, on the main forum, someone from our part of the world came on, and gave advice with wording as if it were handed down from on high.

Her way was the only way. Full stop. No other way could be considered. Finally when asked, the person said that her experience was based on the three floribundas and one hybrid tea she had been growing for a year.

About that time I met the poster. When I told MG off line that I had met the person, MG told me something that I hadn't thought of, that Trolls are real people. And they don't look like they live under bridges.

The person who I met was at a nursery, trying to get the owner to design her garden for free, with no intent of buying roses there.

Was she a troll or just a giver of bad information? We'll never know.

Then there were the guys who appeared over spring break and talked about growing hybrid teas in zone 3 without protection. I contacted Spike (yes, it was that long ago) and he said he didn't mind that the information they were posting was wrong, because just look at the good responses they brought forth.

I've grown into an attitude that has a skepticism of some science (see the field tests of RRD done at Iowa State that showed that under conditions of their study RRD didn't spread to cultivated roses.) My skepticism goes full tilt boogie when miracle chemicals are announced.

People come here. People go. No different than it was ten years ago.


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"That's what destroyed rec.gardens.roses."

One of the most memorable and terrifying true-to-life tales I have ever witnessed. The things that happened were genuinely shocking.


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I have background in science and I'm plenty skeptical when it's called for, but I just like an open, kind forum. If someone smells like a troll, I ignore them. Diane


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  • Posted by AquaEyes 7 New Brunswick, NJ (My Page) on
    Mon, Sep 9, 13 at 15:17

I appreciate Strawberryhill's tests and information, and she seems like a delightful person, but I did often find myself scratching my head at how she was able to come to seemingly absolute conclusions based on information derived from scientific studies on (often) different species, and trying it out once or twice on her roses. It's great to try things out and find something that works, but when one then posts the results as being scientifically valid, one must also be able to handle the criticism that comes with such studies. Science is all about review and disagreement, and it can't be taken personally. I'm sorry if Straw gets upset when people disagree with the conclusions she has drawn, but if she wants to remain scientific with her experiments, she has to be able to not take it personally. That being said, those who do disagree with her conclusions also shouldn't be responding with personal attacks (though I haven't seen them, so I can't say they happened...).

I think that we should all perhaps consider less-absolute language with our conclusions -- say "I find that this seems to work, based on...What do you think?" rather than "This does that." Anyone coming from a science background knows that whenever someone steps up and says "this does that", the onslaught of "how do you know? did you account for all variables? was a double-blind study performed? how many times was the experiment repeated?" questions will follow. If those responses would make you feel attacked, then either be confident in your assertion based on controlling for other possible causes, knowing the responses are about your results and not about you, or simply say "hey, this works for me..."

:-)

~Christopher


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I think straw did a pretty good job of qualifying her conclusions with "in my Chicago 5a zone" or "in my alkaline soil". She was not an absolutist in her conclusions. Diane


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I think we all just have to keep in mind what I learned many years ago when I first began on forums:
"YMMV" is inherent in any advice, experience or wisdom shared here. I miss Strawberry. She always was willing to share her experience with roses.
I agree her methods weren't proven scientifically but if she believed they worked for her and others wanted to try her methods then hey--Freedom is still Free---though for how much longer I don't know.
Cheers!
Susan
Susan


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When I posted my experiences and practices, which were in opposition to hers, she accused me of attacking her. I did not say in any way that she was incorrect, just that what she proposed did not/would not work for me. I was offended, and I stopped reading her posts. It was some time afterwards that she began to qualify her answers.

This is rose growing, what works for me may not work in the same way for my friend down the road. Everyone can be "right" for what works in their yard.


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I guess rec.gardens.roses was before my time, but I well remember Bug Girl. And then Kippy came along with her thread on rose tags, and I thought, here we go again. The sad thing with trolls is people are trying to be helpful, and it takes many posts and much of the writers' time trying to help before we all realize it's a hoax. I've forgotten who busted Bug Girl, but it was well into a long thread with everyone trying to explain reality to her. She was a real person with a serious blog, but she was certainly yanking our chains.

Don't blame yourself, Michael. She left, if she left, long after your comment, and that was certainly a pretty wild ride on that thread.


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Didn't Strawberry leave once already and come back?
While i often didn't agree with her science i liked her personally and I'm certain that she meant well. She is a real person and no troll. I remember fake people in the past and all kinds of things. We're lucky there hasn't been more of that.
Strawberry, are you reading? Please join us. You are a friend.


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I don't know enough about growing roses to EVER tell anyone else what to do-----I do enjoy all the discussions on this Forum by people who are much smarter than I am.
the one thing I do know----location is important----there are so many variables even in the same yard---

I miss Strawberry---Hope she comes back

Florence


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Michael G, I remember that guy who claimed to have the huge pool. That was back when I was first on the rose forums. Unfortunately, I don't remember his name but I sure do remember that totally unbelievable picture that he posted which looked to have come straight from a high-end magazine ad. Too funny!


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Why oh why would anyone expend their energy to be a fake person on a rose forum. I shake my head at the human race much of the time. Very hard to understand...


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  • Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
    Mon, Sep 9, 13 at 23:59

I feel that this is an open forum and everyone has the right to state their opinions. True, sometimes they aren't worded as diplomatically as they could be. But seriously, are we really that thin skinned that someone disagreeing with us drives us away?

Even if a reply is badly worded or even hostile, and I have seen a few of those, I don't think it's cause for being so offended that one must "leave forever". That's a little dramatic for my taste. After all, it is just an inter net forum, a nice place to come and exchange our thoughts on roses, not life or death.

I have rarely seen anyone post things here that were deliberately meant to be mean or spiteful and when that has happened there are plenty of people who jump in to smooth things over. For the most part I think people have taken offense where none was ever intended in the first place. Usually the post was just a vehement or passionate spur of the moment response about the poster's differing personal experiences on the subject and never meant to be an attack on the previous poster's integrity.

I've had my share of people who disagree with me. I read them with respect for their opinions, shrug it off and move on. I don't get all upset and stomp off in a snit. For one thing, if we can't listen to opposing points of view without getting in a huff none of us will ever learn about anything new. The sharing of different ideas is what the forum is all about.


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Several of these recent posts demonstrate why it is always risky to leave a party: everyone immediately starts talking about you!


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Personally, I think it's a mental illness to "spoof" any personality on any forum, site, etc., Jasper. Why would anyone do the kinds of things you read about and see on the news to other people, period? It's as bad as the idiots who spam sites and run attacks against sites, including HMF, just to see if they can. Imagine how much better the world would be if they used their "powers for good", instead of evil. I can't fathom the kind of energy that must require! Kim


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I think it's useful to take into account that people have different personalities, and some are more sensitive than others to criticism, and it's a good idea in general to be as polite as possible, no matter how much you disagree with someone's statements. Teresa (strawberry) is a real person, and told me in an e-mail that she doesn't want to come back to this forum. It may be that the Organic forum is more suitable for her. I always admired her roses and the foliage, when it was shown, always seemed to be totally clean.

Thankfully, we seem to be free of truly vicious people whose sole purpose seems to be to attack others. I will never forget the lady from Denmark a few years ago who trashed Gregg Lowery, Paul Barden, me and quite a few others in a most unrelenting fashion. I'm happy to say that when I and at least two others complained she was taken off the forum. She tried to appear two more times under assumed names but I spotted her and advised the forum administrators immediately. When it comes to the point when you hesitate to log on because you know someone will upset you with their personal and unwarranted attacks, it's time to take action and I don't consider that "tattling". It's the only time I've ever done that, but frankly this lady scared me and I knew of no other way to stop her.

Ingrid


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  • Posted by hoovb z9 Southern CA (My Page) on
    Tue, Sep 10, 13 at 15:11

FWIW, gentlemanly of you to apologize, michaelg.

Mistakes happen--I should know, I make millions of them.

I remember the guy with the Pacific Palisades mansion. He was so over-the-top it was kind of funny.


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But that character caused conflict on the board between people who loved him and people who said he was a con. Turned out that the photos of his mansion came from a realtor's site.


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Michael, I also meant to say that it was very nice of you to apologize.

I remember the "mansion owner" also had an impossibly handsome picture of himself posted. I thought it was interesting that in the beginning it was mostly the ladies who were on his side and mostly the men who were almost immediately skeptical. I guess they weren't blinded by the glamour and sex appeal. I thought he must be a very insecure person with low self esteem to build up this whole facade of another self. Rather sad really.

Ingrid


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Well, I'm sorry to hear about Straw's decision to leave this forum. I always enjoy reading about her experiments. Yes, some of her experiments do sound unconventional--but not outlandish, since experimental approaches can be unconventional (can't they?)--they seem to work beautifully for her! I hope her leave--absence, rather--is only temporary.


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I agree that Straw's methods seem to work for her. I've never seen so many gorgeous bouquets of healthy roses posted here. Those plants growing in her yard looked great, too, though small. As she said, the cold plus her "whacking" them kept them that way. Wish I had a few more smaller rose bushes--most of mine are just too big. Diane


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I have considered a reply to this thread for awhile.

I am sure that Strawberry has read all the comments and will return when she is ready.

I hope that she reads Aqua Eye's comments and really takes them to heart. Experimenting in ones garden and sharing the results can be fun, but if you really want to present the results in a scientific manner, one has to be ready and want criticisms of the results. Critical review is a part of any good study. If you don't want any review, it is best to only share the results and not the method or processes.


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Michaelg - Is Devon the one with the pool that you are mentioning? Guess that makes me an old-timer, if I'm right! I came along after rec.garden.roses, thank goodness.
Anita


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I don't think it was Devon that had the pool, but I remember him reappearing as other people.


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I didn't realize she was gone. Been so busy lately I've just come and scanned the forums lately. I do hope she comes back, SH helped me out a couple of times, although when she started talking science she would lose me alittle. It wasn't her fault she was just so passionate about what she wrote and I sometime didn't understand the " science talk". She seemed like a very nice person though so I really hope she decides to come back.


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You did always know where you were with Strawbs, I will say that ('Cantigney Rose garden - 5000 roses').
Having been a recent flouncee, naturally, you are poring over every post following 'the announcement' (the interweb is great, as Porkpal says, everyone talks about you.....and you can eavesdrop while in a snit). .....but silently slinking off always seems a bit more....serious. Still, I am guessing she might very well check in and be mollified enough to return.....oh, and absolutely, she is a uniquely real person.


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I have nothing against Strawberry the person, but my blood pressure was boiling over her continuous (and erroneous) claims that she had proven that manure destroys blackspot. Wrong, wrong, wrong. But how to nicely say that on this forum without hurting her feelings? There seemed to be no way.

In the meantime, my blood pressure was boiling at the erroneous information.

I do believe Devon was the romantic billionaire with the big pool. And I do remember that a large group of posters on this forum adored him and refused to believe he was a fake. Things got a bit tense around here for a while. He finally announced that since this forum did not appreciate him, he was leaving. And he did.

Kate


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I'm quite sure it was Devon also; the name fit his picture and his image of the jet-setting millionaire who somehow never was able to take believable pictures of his rose garden. After a while I didn't take part in his posts since I felt we were being taken advantage of.

Camp, I love that phrase "recent flouncee". I've flounced once or twice myself, but not silently, since I had to give people a chance to say how much I would be missed. I'm not insecure or childish, of course not.......

Ingrid


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Yes, it was Devon. I liked him even though he may have been fake.

I had issues with Strawberry. She posted stuff that was dead wrong (RRD was caused by over-fertilizing) and, forgive me, I don't believe her pictures were real or real for the time she was posting them. All her rose bushes looked very 'new' and small.


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I'm sorry I missed Devon and all his drama


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Well, first off I wasn't here for any of the exchanges in question, but I do admire Michael's willingness to apologize for something that obviously bothered him. That speaks volumes for his character.

I talk to Straw on HMF occasionally and she's a very nice person. I think she was genuinely hurt by some of the comments made toward/about her, and although I'm more...ornery...than to leave under such circumstances, I can respect that distancing herself from that sort of situation may be what works for her. I wasn't here, so I don't have an opinion on that.

I think everyone who searches for answers regarding something about which they're interested, or even passionate, would do well to remind themselves that no one knows *everything.* The responsibility is (or should be) on the individual in regards to what is actually deduced from the plethora of information and opinion found on the mighty internet.

I deal with this a lot. My husband is a nationally competitive drag racer and I'm heavily involved in the restoration and racing of old Pontiacs. The same types of people can be found in those circles as well. Sometimes they're completely full of it about certain things, and people take their word as gospel, or are shocked when someone has the audacity to go against their word. Those same people are still overflowing with knowledge and experience that IS useful. It's my responsibility to decide what to value and what to discard. It's not my job to publicly challenge their credibility for the sake of...challenging their credibility. Where I draw the line on refraining from comment is when someone is being charged money for bad information or services.

All rambling aside, I think the majority of folks who frequent this site just want to get along and discuss a shared interest...I have the utmost respect for anyone who makes a conscious effort to contribute to a positive environment here on the forum, because it does take effort to maintain.


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Oh dear. I'd forgotten Devon. What fun that was!

Look, we all do things differently. And we should all be prepared for people to question our ideas. It's part of life -- on or off line.

Peace.

Jeri


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Yes, Devon was the one with the mega-mansion and the pool with the spectacular view of the Pacific. And, yes, he did post a melodramatic "I'm misunderstood and under-appreciated here, therefore I shall leave and never, ever return" -- only to return in excelsis and gracious exultation when his fan club posted lamentations upon the abrupt pronouncement of his departure.

Then Devon got into hot water on the Hot Topics forum and that resulted in his banishment -- or so I'm told.

Read all about it on this old thread I found . . .

Here is a link that might be useful: Is Anyone in Touch w/Devon?? Redux


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I have been having a problem with my computer ---can't seem to read any links-----

I do know that when I first joined the Forum one of my posts was totally misunderstood and some of the the responses really hurt my feelings---it hurt for a while but I do understand that things in writing are very different from saying the exact same thing in person.--

I also remember Devon and his gorgeous home and pool--His posts were very entertaining---and a fun time on the Forum----I think it is sad if folks find it necessary to pretend to have a more glamorous life---I try never to judge anyone until I've "walked in their shoes"
I agree with Jeri------I wish everyone Peace and Love including Devon
If I have ever inadvertantly hurt anyone ---I as did Michael, I apologize to all.

Florence


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If I ever make statements about roses that someone else knows or believes is wrong, I would very much appreciate being corrected or contrary information given.

Don't yell at me for being an idiot, not that most anyone would that I respect here, but do tell me. Most of us already know we are idiots, so we don't really need to be told that! But correct information needs to be given out or at least discussed. No one knows everything, and it is nice to discuss what we have learned or know or think we know.

If we are not in the business of telling the truth about growing roses, as we know it, anyway, then it's just another gossip-time-wasting internet hole. I have too much to do in my life to waste time in a place like that.

So don't hesitate to speak up if you know something that will give me something else to think about! I won't be offended, but will probably appreciate you all the more.

Gean


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It sounds like I would've loved reading Devon's posts.
I was once told by a friend that I "collect" eccentric people.
I think they are geniuses.

The description you all give of him, reminds me of
Thurston Howell III, Gilligan's Island!


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Decorum rule isn't about being wrong, its absolutely thinking you are right. I think strawberry hill was zealous, exuberant, playful with her endeavors, but mostly I just ignored her posts. It was overcomplicated way of growing roses, I don't think she was wrong about everything in growing roses near her. But to me , as time is consumed by other pressing concerns, if a rose doesn't grow , growing in the ground, surviving my harsh winters , with basically some compost/manure every year.. then I don't need to rose garden.

A HARSH and hard lesson I learned a few years ago is this: Those people closest to your conditions are the ones that you should listen to the most. I got on the whole "own roots" kick even before I ever came here.. ordered a hundred own root roses in 5 years time from Chamblee's and almost all of them failed. Later, I learned from Madgallica that really the truth of it is, to give any marginal rose a fighting chance, its going to have to be grafted to survive a winter in the north east. Even then, its really rather if you want to bother or not. I find most Antique gallicas, Rugosas , Albas and the what not to be far superior in their survival rate then most moderns, that's why I post here and grow them.

If someone that lived in maine, starting from scratch, I COULD help them based on what I know, but I honestly couldn't help someone living in California, growing something that wouldn't work or live for me. Even the few austins I do grow, I wouldn't tell people much more then what it does for me.

I wasn't always this way, I posted wrong information over the years.. because, well I thought I was right. But you do have to accept your lumps when you are not.

I expect people superior to my knowledge base to let me know when I'm wrong and I listen and review what I know to see if im wrong or not. If not I will stick by what Im doing, for MYSELF in my area of the country.

Silverkelt


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I had contemplated whether or not I would post to this thread. Being new to this forum, I was unsure about speaking out perse; but I do have an opinion.

Michaelg, I hope your apology is appreciated, as people of un-redeeming small character do not make the gesture you have made.

I have been in contact with Strawberryhill on a few occasions. She is a wife, mother, and a rose lover. Many of her statements were qualified with her Chicagoland statement, which is synonymous with YMMV. Even though this is a forum where thoughts are communicated via writing, some ideas or communicative nuances get lost, and others seemingly appear loudly and clear. There have been posts directed toward S.H. that could be perceived as obnoxious. A person could feel as though they are being verbally bullied or insulted. I am not pointing fingers at anyone, but I was taught that there is a way to communicate just about everything, often in a more positive or respectful manner; especially when it is warranted. However, we are all human, have our moments, and do err in the words we select.

Sometimes the spirit of comment has to be determined. Was it communicated with an intent to degrade, be mean, condescending, a snob, versus constructive criticism or advice.

I joined this forum because like S.H. and many of you, I am a rose lover. I was extremely excited, and honestly, being a very busy person, did not know that such a forum existed. In that short amount of time, I have read negative comments about where I reside, by folks who very likely have never resided here, or admitted to having very little working knowledge of life here. My assessment is that those posts are more of a reflection upon the poster; whatever that may be. In the long run, similar comments are not a big deal.

What I did find to be off putting was a post I received from a member as I was attempting to determine if special protection would be required for own root roses during my mild winters. It seemed logical to me that if I cannot expose the potted own root plants to the heat during the summer, that maybe certain cold temperatures could be an issue as well; and this was all I was trying to determine. Prior to receiving what I feel is the perfect advice for my situation , a poster wrote the following
" let us know if your roses make it through the winter". Again, it is written, but the words carry a very heavy negative and obnoxious tone. I began an analysis of this forum to determine if it is primarily a place for rose lovers to discuss and share their knowledge with others, or something else.... Some people who possess a wealth of knowledge and find joy in growing roses, have concluded the latter, and are only readers of posts or do not sign in at all, and this is not a reference to S.H., as I have not asked her if she still reads the posts. It is all a loss, as there is so much regarding these beautiful roses that can be shared. No one knows or has everything....

Lynn

This post was edited by desertgarden561 on Sat, Sep 14, 13 at 19:36


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From this forum and my rose travels around the country and to other parts of the world, I have learned so much about how local conditions affect how roses grow. Your Mileage May Vary, indeed. I try always to make clear that my experience is limited to Sacramento, although I've studied roses in Ohio and looked at them in many other places. If I ever forget to qualify what I say or come across as too opinionated, please let me know.

I felt that Strawberryhill was much too certain that her particular recipes for success were the reason that each rose responded, and I don't believe that roses require the exact pH levels that she so fervently advocated. Back in the 30's, Dr. Nicolas wrote about pH and roses and the soil conditions in Europe (in a very fun book, A Rose Odyssey), and concluded that soil could be more alkaline than people tended to believe. I thought about mentioning that but don't recall that I did - generally I just glanced at Strawberryhill's postings, recognized the love of her roses and her family, and thought "she's got a lot to learn."

As rose author Ingrid Verdegen said when she spoke in Sacramento about Redoute, "Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. ” Voltaire." I think that most of us rose lovers get less and less sure of ourselves the longer we grow roses.

I'm sorry if her feelings were hurt. I agree, we should try to get along. I love chatting with you all and hate it when we lose people (most of them, at least). I'm with Jeri - Devon was fun even if I had no idea who the person was behind the flowery postings and poetry and photos.

And, I must say, my ears were boxed a few times when I first joined this forum about ten years ago. I wrote many things and deleted them. I still do that today - not wanting to show my ignorance or hurt anybody's feelings or give unsuitable advice.
Anita


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Mauvegirl -- As regards Devon (whose actual name was probably something prosaic like Ed or Tom or Gary or Melvin) . . . Yes, you're very astute in making the Thurston Howell III association. However, to really grasp the essence of our Devon, I think a more accurate mental construct would be Thurston Howell III crossed with Jack McFarland (as portrayed by Sean Hayes) on Will & Grace -- with heavy emphasis on Jack McFarland.

Presented just for you Mauvegirl, my dear, here's a Devon retrostpective:

***From COSTCO CONFESSIONAL (01-14-08)

"There I was, at Costco in Manhattan Beach, just shopping for food and trying all the samples, when out of the corner of my eye, I saw roses in body bags. I couldn't resist looking at them. I usually order roses direct from nurseries, but seeing a combo two-pack, with Abraham Darby in it, I just had to try it. I don't have Abraham Darby. Have you tried roses from Costco? I was trying to discipline myself, to not get too many new roses
this year. Abraham was not on my list. Somebody stop me! I hope they are healthy roses, though. They look good and are from J&P. Wish me luck!"

"SAUTESMOM, I know what you mean about the two-pack choices. Well, I did a bad thing. I wanted the Abraham Darby, but not the rose it was paired with, so I slipped it out and put a floribunda called Bill Warriner in with AD. Hey, I still paid the same price for two, so it wasn't stealing. I just customized my purchase."

"BARBARAG, the thing is, I wasn't looking for a bargain.
It was the fact that they we're just there. Just had to check them out! I think many people here have said, that if you buy them early enough, before they are neglected, theyshould be fine. They are grade #1 and they are from J&P. Believe me, I'm not into buying roses that are in bad shape. I'm very particular about that.
Sincerely,
Devon"

**From REFLECTIONS OF A GARDEN, PART IV (12-03-07)

"A FOND OBSESSION WITH ROSES

Well, all my friends, we are at the end of another year and the garden is in slumber. I am busy, with all things holiday, at this time. There is so much I want to get done and yet I always tend to find joy, at this time of whirlwind activity. But you know, my thoughts still wander back to the garden. I was at a Christmas party and I was listening to people talking about their plans, yet I was daydreaming about the roses. It's such a funny thing, but I suppose when you love roses, you can never forget their effect on you. A morning walk in spring, for example, on a Saturday, my favorite day of the week and you smell the sweet scent, of the pink roses, in the air. When you hear songbirds welcoming you to a place of enchantment, with gentle sunshine, sparkling on
all of the garden. Those are moments, you can never forget.

Sometimes, lying in bed at night, I find myself wondering where the year went. I think to myself, it may be time to share my rose gardening ways with a special woman. We could have a wedding in the rose garden we create. Arbors and arbors of roses, raining down on us and the spell of roses, surrounding our lives. Well, it's
a nice fantasy for now and I know it will happen one day. This yet again, is proof of the roses being magic, as well as romantic.

I will take a walk with all of you, into a new year of growing roses,
that bloom in graceful abundance for us. Their sweet scent, filling the air and their beauty transporting us to a place we could never forget, our gardens. These gardens of roses, are the stuff dreams are made of. Once a gardener, always a gardener, I guess. Let us
all enjoy!

Happy Holidays To All,
Devon"

The guy really does have a certain (and enviable) penache, doesn't he?

[Here's a typical response to a Devon post . . .

Posted by onewheeler Z5 N.S. (My Page) on Mon, Dec 3, 07 at 16:42
Oh Devon, if I were a little younger and your were a little older I am sure I would be chasing you around. LOL You are a dear young man. Your writings always make me smile. Thanks, I needed that.
Valerie]

So there you have a smattering of Devonalia (and not necessarily the best of his offerings). Much more is to be found if you care to poke around.

I'll end this by posting a link to an epic Devon thread in which he engages in entertaining give-and-take with his perennial nemesis (Pete41 -- anyone remember Pete41?), and provokes a bit of discussion on American homophobia. Somewhere there's a thread in which Devon succeeded in getting Pete to post a photo in which he (Pete) revealed a bit of beefcake. Devon was a trip . . .

Here is a link that might be useful: Would You Ever Send a Man Roses?


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RE: public apology

Jaxon, thank you for the Devon links! I love that he forgot who he was when posting.

In a different forum, I knew a guy who originally came asking for a camera to take pictures for a catalog of items at his home museum. By the time he left, he had bought all of the most expensive lenses possible (taking pictures with a $100 point and shoot camera) of them. Had bought a 30K lighting set up that included things meant to shoot airplanes in hangers with. Then got bit by the Trek bike bug and was off on $10k bikes....or so he wanted us all to think.


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RE: public apology

I' m sorry to see this happening again

Here is a link that might be useful: Strawberry's leaving


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RE: public apology

Omg, Jaxondel loooooooove it!!!!
From the excerpts alone, "Devon" is
a well-read & highly intelligent individual.
If he wasn't real, is not important.

He comes across as debonair &
exudes self confidence.


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RE: public apology

Dear Florence --- I can't believe you ever hrt anyone. If it happened, I know it was inadvertent. And, really, if most folks here cause pain, I believe it is inadvertent.

We need to cut each other a little slack.

Jeri


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RE: public apology

Dear Florence --- I can't believe you ever hrt anyone. If it happened, I know it was inadvertent. And, really, if most folks here cause pain, I believe it is inadvertent.

We need to cut each other a little slack.

Jeri


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RE: public apology

And so what ever happened to Pete? He certainly livened things up as well as Devon.

Cath


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RE: public apology

Kittymoonbeam, that thread you linked us to was a little scary, and I don't mean what Strawberry said, either. Scary and incomprehensible. Or is it just me? Diane


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RE: public apology

Grief - must be flouncing season now summer is drawing to a close. In truth, having had more than one or two snits, sulks and peeves myself, it is generally better to just let things slide for a bit. Tempers cool and sanity returns.....but then again, I am horribly avid for some delicious scandal, gossip and even some poking and stirring. Life would be so joyless if we were all created in some sort of Stepford, terribly, terribly polite fashion (especially since the decorous smile frequently overlays the snakey malice and spiteful snarl, badly concealed and restlessly stirring).


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RE: public apology

I enjoyed Pete on these forums also, but he infuriated other posters--he was a contrarian and would egg them on, generating lots of complaints about his style. He liked to provoke, is what it amounted to. He got himself banned several times on this forum, was allowed to return after a certain period (and a lot of begging on his part), then he expanded his influence to Hot Topics--where he very quickly provoked some very quick-tongued, short-tempered posters who don't like putting up with what they consider "trollish" behavior, and next thing you know, Pete was permanently banned and has never returned. Well, except for the "disguise" he briefly tried out later, but it didn't last long. I don't know why. I guess the thrill was gone for him.

About the prose sample above of Devon's style, GAG is all I can say. Not only is that phony as they come (I'm not sure he actually had ever grown a rose when he came to GW--he just pretended to be passionate rose-lover), it would fail in a creative writing class--sloppy sentimentality. Went out of style about mid-nineteenth century. Pete and I agreed that such slop was indeed over the top.

Ah, the old days--certainly had some very distinct personalities! LOL

Kate


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RE: public apology

There seem to be two separate conversations going on here.

I have say Jeri, thumbs up on your last post; well said, as usual.

Just common sense, great comment.


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RE: public apology

  • Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
    Sun, Sep 15, 13 at 13:42

Yes, I agree, Jeri, that hit the nail on the head and was exactly what I was trying to say.

People are rarely trying to be nasty. They read something they vehemently disagree with and respond from the gut not taking the time to word it in such a fashion that won't be viewed as harsh.

When I disagree with a poster's view I do try to explain that it may work for them but hasn't and/or doesn't work in my garden. Michael and I often disagree with each other's opinions on pots and wintering them. But I have a great deal of respect for his view because I know he is very experienced and knowledgeable. I just know that some of the things he feels strongly about haven't worked well for me so I have to go with my gut on it. And if there is some one out there that wants the information on how I do things they are welcome to it. Whether they chose to use it of not is entirely up to them. I just feel that differing opinions should be shared for the benefit of everyone. I think the bottom line is there is no "right" or "wrong" way. Just the way that works best for you. We just need to be respectful of those differences.

I liked Strawberry and will miss her comments. She did get very technical sometimes but there are others here who do that too. I read them all and try to decipher them. Sometimes I find a nugget I can use, sometimes not, but I enjoy the knowledge either way.

Camp, you are always a hoot and I so enjoy your wicked sense of humor!


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RE: public apology

I was accused of being a fake, on the kitchen forum...years ago. It was such a silly thing, but in a way, it's not. You are suddenly supposed to prove your innocence...and I believe you should be found innocent until proven guilty.

Nice of you to apologize, Michael, but maybe send Strawberry an email or apologize on a forum she still visits. Just my two cents :)


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RE: public apology

For me, it wasn't that Strawberry was technical or had a weird sense of humor. She said things that were flat out wrong, and if you pointed this out, she got defensive. This forum is to share information, and I don't think false information should be posted and let go.

I think for the most part, people tried to be polite about it. But after the 5, 6 7th time, many (like me) lost patience.


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RE: public apology

I agree with Buford. I also objected to the way she would hi-jack certain threads, posting post after post after post, etc.--often with no other posters to be found posting between her endless posts--basically dominating the threads by talking to herself in post after post after post. At that point, I would just leave the thread and go to another forum.

Kate


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RE: public apology

I just took a peek at the Organic Roses forum - I know, being a voyeur is bad, but I couldn't resist. I am really afraid there is a sad sort of OCD going on - Straw is talking mostly to herself very rapidly on several threads at once, with a little input from SAS - he just politely disagreed with something she said about perlite, and she said he was "hassling" her, and announced she was leaving that forum forever! So, I will stop peeking, as it really looks like a train wreck.

Jackie


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RE: public apology

So did I...there are some lovely photos over there :)


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RE: public apology

Anyone familiar with the cartoon Dexter's Laboratory?
He is a boy-genius with a secret laboratory filled with his collection of inventions. It is televised on the Cartoon Network.

Her experiments reminded me of this cartoon.
I felt her potions were probably altering the rose genetics and colors.

I am here to learn.


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I also didn't get having to repeat the ChicagoLAND thing over & over.

This post was edited by mauvegirl8 on Mon, Sep 16, 13 at 5:57


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RE: public apology

Please, let's put this thread to rest. It is unkind to talk about someone like this and I am sure no one here means to be unkind.


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Agreed


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I agree too Porkpal and Sidos.

I do hope that Strawberry returns, because it is fun to watch her experiments and see what works and what didn't. I sure wish I had the time and budget to play like that in the garden.

And I hope everyone that picked up some advice from her to try in their yard continue to follow what she posts so they can see how it turned out and decide if it is something they want to try as well. (She seems to not like the coco fiber anymore or adding vinegar so if you read about those two and plan on testing them, please go read what she found to be the results)

The thought that this is what works for me in my garden is really what I hope readers of this long thread come away with. That we are all the biggest experts, on our own yards only. And that we should take other peoples advice, consider that advice and determine for ourselves if it is sound and makes sense to try at home. And to be open to hearing about what might not work out so well after all, because that advice might save us some time, money and plants in the end.

And Strawberry, I hope you read this and return when you are ready. :)


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RE: public apology

On an entirely different subject/board I was accused of being a fake person before, ie that I was making up my posts and my life and family, etc. I still have no idea what gave them the idea that I was somehow a fake poster. I didn't want to give extensive personal details about my life or my full name since the subject of the board was somewhat personal. So just because I was being careful about my privacy (and what else I don't know) I got accused of being made up. :\ I "proved" my realness on that board, but I gradually stopped posting there because I didn't feel very welcome.

So please be careful before accusing someone of being a troll or a fake poster, etc.

I agree of course with what others have said that it can be easy to misread people's attitudes online and it helps a lot to post things like "IME or YMMV", etc, so that perhaps people don't take it too far.

I mean XYZ died like 3 times for me. I kinda have an irrational irritation with it even though many people with similar growing conditions to me love it. OH WELL. :) :)

I'm very grateful for this board even though I don't post here THAT often. I've learned a lot here and still come back and read and post from time to time. :)


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RE: public apology

I just read some of the Strawberry stuff for the first time. Seems to me that there's a dynamic at work there that made for an inevitable impasse (if not over perlite, then something else), and a no-win situation for everyone unfortunate enough to be involved. Nevertheless, I respect the concern/compassion Michael and others have voiced.

Quickly reading thru some of the exchanges, I was reminded of Bug-Girl who posted on the Roses Forum for a while. A self-described hoarder, she was a collector of early Barbie dolls (or some such) -- all with their original packaging and tags, which, if present, apparently add greatly to a collectible item's value. She came to these forums obsessed with the idea of searching-out old, abandoned rose bushes and scratching around them to see if she could find the metal name tag. If she located the tag, the plan was to dig the plant, attach the tag and sell each rare find for a bundle on either eBay or Craig's List.

That thread went on & on &on with regulars here v-e-r-y patiently attempting to explain why the plan wasn't a great idea. Bug-Girl would have none of it. When things began to devolve into utter frustration with her, then into humor, Bug-Girl concluded that we were a bunch of non-entrepreneurial "trolls" and departed in a state of high dudgeon, never to return.

Who knows, perhaps she followed thru on the scheme, hit the jackpot with it, and retired to the south of France where she grows fabulous roses today. If so, I've absolutely no doubt that she remembered to preserve the tags -- every single one of 'em.


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